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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 17
yesterday I attended an auction near Hermitage, Mo. a Labor Day event, and the auction bill was advertising 20 ham radios among other I presume consigned items, upon arrival (which was a 45 mile drive one-way) when I inspected the items I noticed most radios were military type and I guess could be lumped in with amateur ham radios to some degree, but the ad was not entirely honest imo, with that said, I won the bid for 1st pick at $60.00 and after the table full of gear was sold I was fortunate (or at least I thought) at the time to acquire a nice military transceiver at as I said $60.00, a military issue CW straight key (J38?) at 10 bucks and a couple more items including a Harris desk mic for a total of $85.00.. when I went to settle up, the clerk said $105.00, and she namesd off the items and when it came to the 60 dollar item they had it incorrectly billed as ?80.00..WTF? I said, "I think your mistaken", and just by coincidence or luck out of the 100's of bidders present attending, the backup bidder bidding against me was at pay window of the trailer used for settling up, and he verified to the clerk and me I indeed paid $60.00 for 1st choice item on table and NOT $80.00, but this was not good enough , I had to go interrupt the auction to get permission to change the amount to correct price, but to my shock and amazement, I was told, "just leave the item" instead of doing the proper thing and correcting their mistake.. this auction company has some pretty "bad press" anyhow as told by others, but I always blew it off, the rumors because for the most part I have never had issues with them before and have attended their auctions for 10 years or more, and they are the friendliest group, and now I am confused as to whether it's a deliberate attempt to swindle me, or an honest mistake on their end, ?/ if I would not have had the backup bidder present as a witness I might have accepted it, but really has been bothering me a lot, since I feel I have been wronged.. there was still good value at $80.00 but it was the principal and ethics, not the price of the item..anyhow, I turned back in every item I purchased, and figured if they need to make money that bad, then letting them have what few bargains I acquired there would help them with their assumed "money problem" really ticed..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:32 am 
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Location: Adrian, Mi.
The first mistake you made was expecting the cashier to "fix" the mistake you think they made. At my auctions, the cashier is not authorized to make those decisions.

My suggestion is you get a written statement from the back-up bidder and then talk to the auctioneer after the auction is over, not during.

Can you recall with certainty what price the auctioneer announced when he sold the item? Perhaps you will be lucky and the auctioneer is one who records his auctions. That will tell the story. I do not record my auctions, but am very careful when announcing the selling price. I always state the bid number twice, and the selling price twice. Rarely is a mistake made by doing this. On really expensive items, I may say the selling price more than twice just to make sure it gets recorded correctly.

If you have been attending this auctioneers auctions for a long time and never had that happen before then it sounds to me like a simple error. either theirs or yours.

Lyn Liechty, Auctioneer
www.arealauction.com


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:56 am 
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After You Said, Even At 80.00 it Was still A Descent Buy, Why Didn't You Just Pay the Extra, Then Contact the Auctioneer, Or Leave Your Contact Information For Him, And Try to Work it Out After The Auction? After All, You Have Your Time Invested, And You Wanted These Items, So to Turn them Back In made No Sense. An Auctioneer That has You Coming this Long, Would More than Likely Tried to Work Something out With You. In the End, You Both Loose.... You Didn't Get the Items You Wanted, He Still has These Items to Deal With,(Unless He went Ahead and Resold Them that Day), And He May Not ever Let You Come Back To Future Auctions (At Least I Wouldn't).

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John D. Adams-Auctioneer
Jersey County Auction
Kane,Illinois
http://WWW.JERSEYCOUNTYAUCTIONS.COM


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 2437
Location: Houston TX
Legal action for auctioneer abuse????
I didn't see anything in your description of events that alluded to any form of abuse.
You even indicate that it may have only been a mistake.
But then you continue to claim that they were trying to swindle you (over one item... and $20?).
Do you really think that $20 is going to make or break the auction?
Even at 25% commission, that would be a whopping $5 for the auction company.
This makes no sense.

To top it off, the auctioneer even allowed you to withdraw from your purchase of the item in question... after a contract was formed upon the call of "sold."

Excuse me, but I would not have stopped my auction to discuss such things, for a number of reasons.
1. Those 100's of other bidders are patiently waiting on the items they want to bid on.
2. It disrupts the auction.
3. When the auctioneer calls "sold," you have a legal binding contract and required to pay for the items purchased.

By the same token, my cashier would have told you to see me when the auction was over (per my instructions).

Just because someone else (backup bidder?) also claims that the price was wrong, doesn't mean it was wrong. Believe it or not, they may also be mistaken, as such things happen more often than one might think... I can't count the number of times that I've had two (or more) bidders think they were the "high bidder" or that the items were being sold as a group when I specifically stated "choice" or "times the money." I've even had a few occasions such as yours, yet had others that also confirmed the clerk's written record was the price that the item sold for... these days, I also record my auctions for verification. However, you'll have to wait until the auction's over before I'm going to sit through hours of recording to find that one item in question.

No, auctioneers (clerks, cashiers, etc.) are not perfect. They are human and like everyone else, may make a mistake... just as a bidder or buyer may also make a mistake. However, implying that they are trying to swindle you over a $20 mistake is ludicrous.

It's doubtful that you have any legal standing that implies the auctioneer abused you in any manner. After all, the auctioneer gave you permission to void the sale, rather than make you wait around until the auction was over and determine if it was a clerking mistake or not.

However, to top it off, you didn't pay for your other purchases and in violation of a legally binding contract when you walked out without paying for those items that were not in dispute. So technically, the auctioneer could take legal action against you for breach of contract.

I might be more inclined to question the principals and ethics of someone that makes such abusive claims, when the auctioneer had attempted to appease you and let you out of the purchase contract for the item in question.

Keep in mind, there's always two sides to every story. We haven't heard the other side, so one can only speculate what may have actually occurred... could there have been collusion between the buyers, as well? Who knows....

If you actually think that you might have a case for legal action, you should consult with an attorney rather than airing your perceived grievance on a public forum and the possible repercussions of being sued for libel (it's not hard to find who was performing a Labor Day auction in Hermitage, MO).

_________________
Texas-National Auctioneers
Professional Auction Services for Houston & the Great State of Texas
Personal Estate - Business Liquidation - Real Estate - Charity Fundraisers

http://www.t-na.com
281-479-7848


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:54 am
Posts: 272
Location: New York state
I've attended many auctions which were videotaped or at least recorded. I'm sure the decision to do this was because of similar situations; or the possibility of similar situations. Especially at high end auctions I would imagine this is a very effective lawsuit deterrent.

Clerking by hand is one thing, but when using computers it is incredibly easy for a typist/clerk to transpose numbers or make other typing errors, and there is no chance to proof and discover/correct anything during the sale itself.

Having worked in a profession where one number off can make a huge difference, I feel serious empathy for these clerks, who spend hours at high speed under high pressure having to generate as close to 100% accuracy as is humanly possible using a keyboard.

One of my own experiences was attending an auction where the auctioneer called "SOLD - $110 to bidder 120" - and it was recorded by the clerk as $120 - 120 (which I only found out when I was checking out). Later in the sale I "stole" two vases that were misidentified/advertised as antique, high end glass (actually they were 1970s Fenton). With antique glass bidders uninterested and no Fenton bidders in the crowd, I ended up paying a pittance for two lovely vases that I later sold at a very nice profit.

When I discovered the $120-120 at checkout I was not a happy camper, but decided it was not worth $10 to waste my time; and I'd made out very well on the vases.

On the other hand, when checking out to leave another auction, I found a $55 charge on my bill for an item that I had not bought. I brought it to the manager's attention and it was removed from my bill on the spot. If they recorded the auction, they will be able to find out who the correct bidder was, but I was extremely grateful to them for taking my word at the time about a wrongly recorded lot.

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Jane

"I'm not an auctioneer - I've just come to appreciate the good ones !"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 17
Lyn Liechty wrote:
The first mistake you made was expecting the cashier to "fix" the mistake you think they made. At my auctions, the cashier is not authorized to make those decisions.

My suggestion is you get a written statement from the back-up bidder and then talk to the auctioneer after the auction is over, not during.

Can you recall with certainty what price the auctioneer announced when he sold the item? Perhaps you will be lucky and the auctioneer is one who records his auctions. That will tell the story. I do not record my auctions, but am very careful when announcing the selling price. I always state the bid number twice, and the selling price twice. Rarely is a mistake made by doing this. On really expensive items, I may say the selling price more than twice just to make sure it gets recorded correctly.

If you have been attending this auctioneers auctions for a long time and never had that happen before then it sounds to me like a simple error. either theirs or yours.

Lyn Liechty, Auctioneer
http://www.arealauction.com

absolutely certain what the price was, it was $60.00 as verified by the backup bidder standing next to me at the checkout trailer, if it was a simple error, then why was there not more action taken to rectify the problem, an example being the auction team discussing with the clerk about whether the price was recorded correctly? I can not get much better documentation than a backup bidder actually telling part of the auction crew that "this guy won it at $60.00 not $80.00" .. do you realize how hard it is competing against the actual auction company buying items for re-sell also? this is common-place with this outfit..never been a fan of them doing business like that, since in reality, an auctioneer company is really only supposed to be an agent to sell people's property, not to actually compete with the attendees? they were happy no doubt to get the stuff back, since they now will make profit on it, but in the future, if the auction company was dis-satisfied with the price fetched, put a reserve on it and start it out at 80.00?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 17
James Ford wrote:
Legal action for auctioneer abuse????
I didn't see anything in your description of events that alluded to any form of abuse.
You even indicate that it may have only been a mistake.
But then you continue to claim that they were trying to swindle you (over one item... and $20?).
Do you really think that $20 is going to make or break the auction?
Even at 25% commission, that would be a whopping $5 for the auction company.
This makes no sense.

To top it off, the auctioneer even allowed you to withdraw from your purchase of the item in question... after a contract was formed upon the call of "sold."

Excuse me, but I would not have stopped my auction to discuss such things, for a number of reasons.
1. Those 100's of other bidders are patiently waiting on the items they want to bid on.
2. It disrupts the auction.
3. When the auctioneer calls "sold," you have a legal binding contract and required to pay for the items purchased.

By the same token, my cashier would have told you to see me when the auction was over (per my instructions).

Just because someone else (backup bidder?) also claims that the price was wrong, doesn't mean it was wrong. Believe it or not, they may also be mistaken, as such things happen more often than one might think... I can't count the number of times that I've had two (or more) bidders think they were the "high bidder" or that the items were being sold as a group when I specifically stated "choice" or "times the money." I've even had a few occasions such as yours, yet had others that also confirmed the clerk's written record was the price that the item sold for... these days, I also record my auctions for verification. However, you'll have to wait until the auction's over before I'm going to sit through hours of recording to find that one item in question.

No, auctioneers (clerks, cashiers, etc.) are not perfect. They are human and like everyone else, may make a mistake... just as a bidder or buyer may also make a mistake. However, implying that they are trying to swindle you over a $20 mistake is ludicrous.

It's doubtful that you have any legal standing that implies the auctioneer abused you in any manner. After all, the auctioneer gave you permission to void the sale, rather than make you wait around until the auction was over and determine if it was a clerking mistake or not.

However, to top it off, you didn't pay for your other purchases and in violation of a legally binding contract when you walked out without paying for those items that were not in dispute. So technically, the auctioneer could take legal action against you for breach of contract.

I might be more inclined to question the principals and ethics of someone that makes such abusive claims, when the auctioneer had attempted to appease you and let you out of the purchase contract for the item in question.

Keep in mind, there's always two sides to every story. We haven't heard the other side, so one can only speculate what may have actually occurred... could there have been collusion between the buyers, as well? Who knows....

If you actually think that you might have a case for legal action, you should consult with an attorney rather than airing your perceived grievance on a public forum and the possible repercussions of being sued for libel (it's not hard to find who was performing a Labor Day auction in Hermitage, MO).
should I really expect a different answer from an auctioneer sticking up for one of their own kind? no, you missed the point altogether, they took absolutely no effort to see if they made a mistake.. in several words, they decided in their favor.. with a sheepish grin reply of "leave the item" rather than, "we will look into this problem" and take action, says it all.. they wanted me to leave the item because it did not bring enough money to satisfy them.. if it was POSSIBLY a mistake as I alluded to, no effort was put forth to find out on their part if it truly was a mistake..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 17
J Silverman wrote:
I've attended many auctions which were videotaped or at least recorded. I'm sure the decision to do this was because of similar situations; or the possibility of similar situations. Especially at high end auctions I would imagine this is a very effective lawsuit deterrent.

Clerking by hand is one thing, but when using computers it is incredibly easy for a typist/clerk to transpose numbers or make other typing errors, and there is no chance to proof and discover/correct anything during the sale itself.

Having worked in a profession where one number off can make a huge difference, I feel serious empathy for these clerks, who spend hours at high speed under high pressure having to generate as close to 100% accuracy as is humanly possible using a keyboard.

One of my own experiences was attending an auction where the auctioneer called "SOLD - $110 to bidder 120" - and it was recorded by the clerk as $120 - 120 (which I only found out when I was checking out). Later in the sale I "stole" two vases that were misidentified/advertised as antique, high end glass (actually they were 1970s Fenton). With antique glass bidders uninterested and no Fenton bidders in the crowd, I ended up paying a pittance for two lovely vases that I later sold at a very nice profit.

When I discovered the $120-120 at checkout I was not a happy camper, but decided it was not worth $10 to waste my time; and I'd made out very well on the vases.

On the other hand, when checking out to leave another auction, I found a $55 charge on my bill for an item that I had not bought. I brought it to the manager's attention and it was removed from my bill on the spot. If they recorded the auction, they will be able to find out who the correct bidder was, but I was extremely grateful to them for taking my word at the time about a wrongly recorded lot.

I am acknowledging this happens to everybody sooner or later, the fact there are mistakes made, items accounted to wrong bid numbers, of course accidents happen, I have even overpaid for items rather than disrupt the people checking out behind me in line, who would have to wait on my complaints that need attention, or I simply drop out of line and wait maybe hours till the auction is through to get some attention by the auction team, I generally just pay more than I knew I bid, and go on.. this time, the reply by the man in charge himself, was not "wait around till after the auction is over so we can look into this" it was simply, " leave the item" there was no discussion at all, but more the attitude if you do not like it, then leave it.. the guy in charge could have at least let his son who also auctioneers, sitting beside him on the auction platform take over, for a couple minutes, and we all head over to the clerk and discuss the problem, but it was lack of effort on their part to satisfy a customer a long time customer like me, who has PROFITED them probably thousands of dollars in extra commissions by me bidding on items the past 10 years and more, that got me angry.. I still love them all, but I am angry with them... in 3 seconds my "CASE" was resolved.. not fair in my opinion..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 17
John Adams wrote:
After You Said, Even At 80.00 it Was still A Descent Buy, Why Didn't You Just Pay the Extra, Then Contact the Auctioneer, Or Leave Your Contact Information For Him, And Try to Work it Out After The Auction? After All, You Have Your Time Invested, And You Wanted These Items, So to Turn them Back In made No Sense. An Auctioneer That has You Coming this Long, Would More than Likely Tried to Work Something out With You. In the End, You Both Loose.... You Didn't Get the Items You Wanted, He Still has These Items to Deal With,(Unless He went Ahead and Resold Them that Day), And He May Not ever Let You Come Back To Future Auctions (At Least I Wouldn't).

that would be like overpaying at wallyworld for an item and then driving home, and calling on the phone to hope you recover your money owed to you.. IT"S THE PRINCIPLE and not the item price, if you read what I said, I already said there was still value left in the rig, but it's a matter of ETHICS that I live my life by, not by profitability.. that's what's wrong with people today, they have gave up ETHICS in exchange for trying to improve their wealth at ANY COST.. to get ahead by cheating is not good ethics in my opinion..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:51 am
Posts: 2411
Location: Adrian, Mi.
If you were not willing to talk to the auctioneer AFTER the auction was over then you really are whining about nothing.

You simply do not disrupt an auction. Good manners dictate you take it up with the auctioneer at a more appropriate time. And that has absolutely nothing to do with sticking up for an auctioneer. That comment is simply insulting.

I have to wonder what your reaction would have been had you been undercharged rather than overcharged. Would you have brought that to the attention to the auctioneer? I rather doubt it!

Lyn Liechty, Auctioneer
www.arealauction.com


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