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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:49 pm 
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James Ford wrote:
Shawn Dostie wrote:
Again, as a business person I beseech you not to be too hasty in your dismissal of a bidder's feelings. This is an opportunity to share your love and knowledge of the industry.
I am not touchy when a person calls my honesty and integrity into question.
I am a car dealer and a landlord as well, so it goes with the territory.
As an aside to Lyn, this is all part of the fabric of Social Media/Marketing.
On my pages I purposely ask for constructive criticism. I can sit on the Ivory Tower all day long and it will not give me the ounce of perspective that I can get in one conversation with a bidder/tenant/customer.
When there is a public complaint, it works out 2 ways. 1st, and most favorable- There is a discourse and both come to an understanding. 2nd- You get a raving lunatic. I actually love these. On one side of the conversation/posts you have an angry person, unable to control their emotions, ranting and raving telling how bad a person you are. Meanwhile, you get to showcase your diplomacy, your attempt to solve a problem, etc.... The public sees all this. The good people take your side and defend you. The people that take the ranter's side..... At least you know who they are! You would be amazed at family members of the aggrieved party that know exactly how they are and defend you ;)
I believe this openness is what helps me use Social Media so effectively.
I am currently working on my blog to make people understand why a 40% rate on consigned box lots is not high.

Shawn
It still doesn't change the fact that the Forum Rules also forbid using the name of an auctioneer or auction house when airing complaints on this forum. There aren't exceptions that exempt any particular individual or circumstance.

There are always two sides to the story. One of the "sides" may not be present to offer theirs in defense of defamatory allegations. So, in such cases, one of your two ways can never exist and a raving lunatic may only continue to defame and claim they know what happened (when they don't).

Then there is the false perception that the "customer is always right." This was a marketing slogan started by Macy's many decades ago. The problem is that the customer is not always right... and there are some "customers" that a business does not need, as they will never be satisfied. If you spend a lot of time attempting to appease everyone, you'll only be wasting a lot of time and effort, when you could be building your business.

As far as a "bidder's feelings," this is often due to perceived wrongs, when the real problem is they don't actually know how the auction works. We've heard it so many times... from accusations of shilling to how you are supposed to run an auction... and who would know better than the bidder, eh?

I do my best to educate others on the auction profession, but there are still those that think they know more about it than I do. If one is quick to find fault with others and defame them based on ill-perceived assumptions, I'll refer them to your auctions and you can deal with them. I'll expend my efforts on the many others, as I learned long ago, some folks only try to fault others for their own mistakes or misunderstanding and no amount of explaining will change them.

This does not imply that the poster is one of those. However, Ray did show him why his "high bid" was not the winning bid and I don't remember seeing any apologies being offered.

Jim Ford
Professional Auctioneer & Auction Marketing for the 21st Century


Hey Jim, thanks for the reply.

There are Forum Rules? ;) How many forums I have been to and seen this type of thing. That is left to the moderators.

My aside to Lyn was in reference to Facebook pages, which I monitor constantly. There are times when a comment may sit there for a while, but with a vested interest, I keep an eye out, or it's grown to the point where friends will help out.

I actually agree that the customer is not always right. In fact, they normally are wrong, but their squeaky wheel can generate unwanted unwarranted attention. With this social media, one cannot type something then twist the words later, especially when the replies are right there in black and white.

Then again, it isn't for everyone, what works for me may not work for anyone else. That's what makes this country a great place.

I will say that I have turned many many of these perceived bad customers into repeat life long friends and customers. I have popped off in the heat of the moment, then been sorry later. Treated with fire, it can burn a bridge. I just want to be certain that any bridges that are burned, that I lit the match and threw the dynamite.

I will take anyone you send me except dishonest check writers.

I only give my opinion as just that, an opinion. I don't give it to say my way is better, or that anyone elses view is invalid.

Shawn Dostie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:08 am 
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Shawn Dostie wrote:
There are Forum Rules? ;) How many forums I have been to and seen this type of thing. That is left to the moderators

Yep, this forum has posted rules:
http://www.auctionzip.com/azforum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29

I've been on many forums over the years, even before Al Gore invented the internet and it was just BBS. Most do have rules. The moderators are just the ones that enforce the rules. However, on this forum, expect a bit of backlash from the regular posters on here, if you break those rules.

In fact, if you see someone breaking those rules, feel free to try and be the first to click the red exclamation point in the bottom right-hand corner of the offending post and report them. The moderators will usually take care of it. In this case, I guess everyone just chose to give the offender a bit of their own "advice," rather than reporting it... that's a rarity in these types of situations.

Jim

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Professional Auction Services for Houston & the Great State of Texas
Personal Estate - Business Liquidation - Real Estate - Charity Fundraisers

http://www.t-na.com
281-479-7848


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:37 am 
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Just to let you all know i only wanted clarity. thats why i asked for your inputs. and i respect them all. I would have never posted here if "ray" would have taken the time to try to explain to me what had transpired on the day of the auction, (but in honesty i cant say it was ray or one of his staff) when i called. "yes" i did try to converse but there was a curt and low tolerance in the conversation and very simple in the detail of replies to my inquiry. and the details dont matter, its the unwillingness to try to appease the client. which we all know is the bread and butter of anyones business. were all consumers at some level. As i compare conversations i see harshness provoking attitudes in the responses, for the individual refection purposes i say this. I think we have all gained from this experience good bad or indifferent, i have no negative feelings towards any of you all here. i wish you all well. in closing i feel we should all heed the wisdom of "Shawn Dostie" words...if there is a thread of honest reflection in ourselves, myself included (a thorough inventory), and our lives and or our quests in life do not see the the peaceful approach Shawn is trying to evoke then we are a sorry sort for sure.
yes i am sorry this whole thing went this way and my apologies to you all.
mike sanchez


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:05 am
Posts: 9
John Adams wrote:
I am Sorry I took it that way, I post on this Forum, time to Time, And Talk With Alot of Great Auctioneers, And Have Learned Many Good Things over the Years. I guess I took it Wrong, When My Full Name, And Location Was used in Your Thank You, Generally on this Forum, We call each other By First Name Only For the Most Part. Like Lynn,said Before, If You Have a Beef With Anyone, Be it a Auctioneer or A Local Shop Owner, It is Better to Talk With Them Directly Than Out in the Open, Your Likely to get Your Answer To your Problem. This Forum Is not Used to Slam Auctioneers, But If You ever have A Question About a Auction Issue, Ask Here, And Your Sure to Get an Answer,
Once Again, I'm Sorry I took Your Response out of Context.



thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:05 am
Posts: 9
Shawn Dostie wrote:
Again, as a business person I beseech you not to be too hasty in your dismissal of a bidder's feelings. This is an opportunity to share your love and knowledge of the industry.
I am not touchy when a person calls my honesty and integrity into question.
I am a car dealer and a landlord as well, so it goes with the territory.
As an aside to Lyn, this is all part of the fabric of Social Media/Marketing.
On my pages I purposely ask for constructive criticism. I can sit on the Ivory Tower all day long and it will not give me the ounce of perspective that I can get in one conversation with a bidder/tenant/customer.
When there is a public complaint, it works out 2 ways. 1st, and most favorable- There is a discourse and both come to an understanding. 2nd- You get a raving lunatic. I actually love these. On one side of the conversation/posts you have an angry person, unable to control their emotions, ranting and raving telling how bad a person you are. Meanwhile, you get to showcase your diplomacy, your attempt to solve a problem, etc.... The public sees all this. The good people take your side and defend you. The people that take the ranter's side..... At least you know who they are! You would be amazed at family members of the aggrieved party that know exactly how they are and defend you ;)
I believe this openness is what helps me use Social Media so effectively.
I am currently working on my blog to make people understand why a 40% rate on consigned box lots is not high.


Shawn: thank you for your words, we can all gain from your attitude. we are all students in life if were willing to learn. the opposing has an apparent outcome.
mike sanchez


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:54 am
Posts: 272
Location: New York state
David P. Whitley CAI CES wrote:
This happens ALL THE TIME when you are using a simulcast. The Auctioneer cannot see the high bid in the system. If the service providers were smart, they would set the software to force the internet bid in when it is maxed but they choose not to do that. An item can actually sell for less than a bidder’s max bid and the Auctioneer never will know it.


Steve Johnson is no longer with AuctionZip............... I don't hold out much hope for that kind of ingenious improvement. :cry:

I have to say I can empathize with Mike (and glad to see the conversation taking the turn it has), it's too bad that a "hidden" sale situation/practice is what started the snowball of unpleasantness going down the hill. I think this is an example of bidders not being aware of a situation, that the live auction provider services WILL NOT TELL THEM. I know I've never heard about it.

Who would have guessed that the auction house would not be automatically provided with a bidder's maximum ? Of course an on-site computer operator can't know if an online bidder's maximum is not reached, if the service doesn't provide them with that information! What is a bidder supposed to do - bid an increment higher than their maximum -- since the maximum won't kick in?? I never liked absentee bidding to begin with, and this has now really convinced me it is not the way to go.

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Jane

"I'm not an auctioneer - I've just come to appreciate the good ones !"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:30 am
Posts: 481
I think your reading into it to much. A tie bid goes to whom ever the auctioneer takes first. Just because your online it does not mean your bid goes first. Of course the live bidder has the advantage of jumping the bid. The online bidder has to wait for his sequence. So you are correct your only guaranteed to win one increment below your high online bid. And this is only guaranteed if the internet does not go out.

On most items there is a tipping point. That is a price where 10 people are on and one more increment it is down to 1 bidder. On this item there were about five people willing to pay $7500 at $7750 there were 2 and at 8k no more bids. The result of this is when there is an online bid or a left bid it is many times very close. As an auctioneer I hate it when a bidder leaves a $500 bid and low and behold he gets it at exactly $500. An eyebrow always goes up. I never want to know what a bidders maximum is.

One thing you learn as an auction house owner is you can not do anything without being scrutinized. If you help one person your hurt another. I swear sometime the customers know what is in my auction house before I do. lol All you can do is be honest a try to make it a fair playing field. I think the funniest thing is customers don't get that we want their money. They some how think that by missing their high bid we benefit. I have had the internet go out during an auction and missed many high bids. I am the one sniffling in the corner the hardest.lol


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:54 am
Posts: 272
Location: New York state
Ray, I have no problem with auctioneers running auctions to the best of their ability. My amazement was that bidders apparently are not aware (at least two of us, based on this thread) that the maximum bid amount they submit to the internet auction service may not be sent through to the auction house. It is not the auctioneer's fault if the internet service doesn't send the bid through.

I attend a lot of auctions and I agree with you 100% , and I also feel almost all auctioneers I've come across are doing the absolute best they can trying to run a clean, honest auction where if bidders don't like the result at least they will understand the "why."

I should also say that I do almost no internet bidding, usually because of (1) impossibility of judging an item's condition for myself which can get very expensive if it is a costly item and something turns out to be wrong with it; (2) ridiculous buyer's premiums; and (3) the fickleness of the system - the power can go off, the system can hiccup, the connection can be too slow; etc etc etc all causing a bid to not register.

My best use of internet auction listings is to locate the ones I want to either attend in person or, failing that, bid by telephone.

My only use of "absentee bids" is to use one in the rare event I can't attend an auction and I really really want to end up winning the bid on something very special. I will register an absentee bid as insurance, in case my telephone bid doesn't go through or I somehow can't attend in person. I also dislike absentee bidding because I like to be able to change my mind. If I lose the first item I bid on, maybe I'll want to spend a little more on the second. Set absentee amounts are not flexible.

Just for fun - and as frustrating for me as Mike's experience was for him -- one of the reasons I don't bid absentee any more -- I left a $500 absentee bid on an auction lot. After the auction ended, I checked results and saw the lot sold for $450. I happily phoned the auctioneer to discuss my winning bid and was told I did not win. The auctioneer said another person had left an absentee bid, for the same $500 as I had, but their bid had been taken several days before. (NOTE, this was not internet bidding.) The earlier bid of course takes precedence and while I wasn't happy I accepted that explanation -- but why was the final hammer price $50 less than two higher competing bids (our two $500 maximum absentee amounts) ? I would fully expect the auctioneer should have awarded it to the earlier absentee, but for $500, in order to eliminate my competing bid. I would not have liked to be the consignor of this item, it wasn't much but in my humble opinion the hammer price should have been $500, a few more bucks in the consignor's pocket.

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Jane

"I'm not an auctioneer - I've just come to appreciate the good ones !"


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:04 am 
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J Silverman wrote:
Just for fun - and as frustrating for me as Mike's experience was for him -- one of the reasons I don't bid absentee any more -- I left a $500 absentee bid on an auction lot. After the auction ended, I checked results and saw the lot sold for $450. I happily phoned the auctioneer to discuss my winning bid and was told I did not win. The auctioneer said another person had left an absentee bid, for the same $500 as I had, but their bid had been taken several days before. (NOTE, this was not internet bidding.) The earlier bid of course takes precedence and while I wasn't happy I accepted that explanation -- but why was the final hammer price $50 less than two higher competing bids (our two $500 maximum absentee amounts) ? I would fully expect the auctioneer should have awarded it to the earlier absentee, but for $500, in order to eliminate my competing bid. I would not have liked to be the consignor of this item, it wasn't much but in my humble opinion the hammer price should have been $500, a few more bucks in the consignor's pocket.

I also find it erroneous in the way the auctioneer handled this. It sounds like he took the first absentee bid, which is appropriate, but then started the bidding from the floor and used the absentee bid in competition against the floor bids.

Multiple absentee bids on an item is still competitive bidding and only the highest bid should be accepted. If you have two absentee bids, the lower bid (or later bid, if the same amount) should be discarded, as the other was outbid. The absentee bid should then be used to start the bidding no lower than the second highest absentee bid, if a higher start bid is not offered from the floor bidders. Otherwise the auctioneer is not appropriately exercising their fiduciary duty to their Seller.

So, in your case, with two absentee bids for the same amount, the $500 bid should have been the minimum starting bid for the item.

Jim Ford
Professional Auctioneer & Auction Marketing for the 21st Century

_________________
Texas-National Auctioneers
Professional Auction Services for Houston & the Great State of Texas
Personal Estate - Business Liquidation - Real Estate - Charity Fundraisers

http://www.t-na.com
281-479-7848


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 pm 
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James Ford wrote:
J Silverman wrote:
Just for fun - and as frustrating for me as Mike's experience was for him -- one of the reasons I don't bid absentee any more -- I left a $500 absentee bid on an auction lot. After the auction ended, I checked results and saw the lot sold for $450. I happily phoned the auctioneer to discuss my winning bid and was told I did not win. The auctioneer said another person had left an absentee bid, for the same $500 as I had, but their bid had been taken several days before. (NOTE, this was not internet bidding.) The earlier bid of course takes precedence and while I wasn't happy I accepted that explanation -- but why was the final hammer price $50 less than two higher competing bids (our two $500 maximum absentee amounts) ? I would fully expect the auctioneer should have awarded it to the earlier absentee, but for $500, in order to eliminate my competing bid. I would not have liked to be the consignor of this item, it wasn't much but in my humble opinion the hammer price should have been $500, a few more bucks in the consignor's pocket.

I also find it erroneous in the way the auctioneer handled this. It sounds like he took the first absentee bid, which is appropriate, but then started the bidding from the floor and used the absentee bid in competition against the floor bids.

Multiple absentee bids on an item is still competitive bidding and only the highest bid should be accepted. If you have two absentee bids, the lower bid (or later bid, if the same amount) should be discarded, as the other was outbid. The absentee bid should then be used to start the bidding no lower than the second highest absentee bid, if a higher start bid is not offered from the floor bidders. Otherwise the auctioneer is not appropriately exercising their fiduciary duty to their Seller.

So, in your case, with two absentee bids for the same amount, the $500 bid should have been the minimum starting bid for the item.

Jim Ford
Professional Auctioneer & Auction Marketing for the 21st Century


Being new to this end of it, this is what I come to the forum to read, to pick up nuggets like this. I had 2 Lionel train sets with 2 absentee bids. 1 was 25.00 each, the other was 50.00 each. I started the bidding at the 25.00 and it ended on the 50.00 on the button. Thankfully I had some other pieces the bidder got for less than his exact bids and one item he missed completely. He was impressed with my honesty and brought me consignments for the next sale as he picked up theses items.

Shawn


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